Build a Global Recruiting Machine Like This Top HR Executive

Build a Global Recruiting Machine Like This Top HR ExecutiveBrad Wilkins, Vice President of Human Resurces at Altisurce, joins The Growth Recruiting Podcast to showcase how their 150+ HR kollektiv produces incredible results. In this episode, youll learn what a well-oiled recruiting machine looks like. Brad discusses their hiring process, from end-to-end, and provides actionable tips that can be applied at organizations of all sizes.The Growth Recruiting Podcast is available in iTunesShow leides135 About Brad and Altisource406 Incorporating startup mentalities into a global organization610 Structuring a 150+ HR team737 Bringing Organizational Development into the hiring process857 Types of recruiting processes1000 Implementing specific new roles into the hiring process1120 Brads signature on job postings1327 Brads approach to organizational development1512 Recap of Brads hiring system1658 How organization size changes the recruiting approach1754 Brads goal to improve his hiring proce ss2145 Avoiding paralysis by analysis2722 Increasing adoption of new processes2856 Using Minimum Viable Product in HR and Recruiting3030 Brads book recommendations3230 Brads advice on productivity3324 Brads HR productivity tool of choice3453 Brads daily routine3637 Brads contact informationResources mentioned on the episodeThe Startup Way by Eric RiesThe Lean Startup by Eric RiesThe Talent Delusion Why Data, Not Intuition, Is the Key to Unlocking Human PotentialExponential OrganizationPure ChatFlipmotherboardHBRConnect with Brad on LinkedInAltisource CareersTranscriptJosh Today I am joined by Brad Wilkins, Vice President of Human Resources at Altisource, which is an integrated service provider and marketplace for the real estate and mortgage industries.Before we get started, a few things to know about Brad, he was named in the Top 25 HR Executives under 40 by Workforce Magazine, and the 1 corporate recruiter in America by theladders.com. He has been featured speaker for Linkedin, th eladders, Workforce Live TLNT and mora. So, I am really excited to have Brad on the podcast today. And I know hell provide some awesome tips for all of you that are listening. Brad, hows it going?Brad Hey Josh, its my pleasure. Though, the thing you didnt tell them is that Ive been using your platform probably almost since the beginning of your present induction. Ive been a big fan of your guys work so its a pleasure to join the podcast.Josh Thank you, Brad. I appreciate the shout out there. Yeah, we go way back so I definitely know a lot about all of your great recruiting experience and I know youll be able to bring some awesome tips to the show today. So, I guess real quickly I gave you a little bit of an intro, but maybe you could introduce yourself a little bit mora. Talk about your current role, your current company, and what you guys are up to.Brad Sure So Altisource is in a really neat juxtaposition as a VP of HR, although by the time you listen to this we may have launched o ut our rebranding. Were launching as People Solutions next year with the catchphrase that Were solving geschftsleben problems with People Solutions. Depending on when you listen to this, the VP of HR may leid be the accurate title. The companys really cool because weve got a combination of some really mature geschftlicher umganges that are multi-million, hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue serving the top 10 banks in America with their servicing needs on the mortgage side. As well as a lot of the mid-market originators in the loan space. In fact, 15% of loans across the country every year go through Altisource in some way. Its a really mature mortgage business.And then on our Real Estate side, we have a number of initiatives that are growth initiatives. Those are really incubation style. One of those being owners.com, which is a marketplace to buy and sell real estate. An online platform that has a brokerage built in thats really in massive expansion mode. We just hire d a new president about 6 months ago. And then we have another business, a real estate investment function, thats doing a lot of things that frankly I cant even talk about on this podcast. But by the time it comes out, youll get to hear about it. Thats also in major, major growth mode.So both of those are at completely different juxtapositions than the mature businesses. And so its balancing out these mature along with the growing internal technology group thats surfacing and trying to find where there are opportunities for automation, etc. We have a mature, big, global, 6,000 employees in India, almost a thousand in the Philippines, 2,000 in the United States, and then spread out through Luxembourg, Uruguay, Romania, etc. Global, fast-growing, but also stabilized, mature, businesses in a very, very interesting industry at this time in the world right now.Josh Wow. Thats pretty crazy. So, thats pretty cool because it sounds like youre pretty much in dienstgrad of the recruiting and human resources on a global enterprise scale. But also its almost like you guys have these startups underneath the umbrella. Its a balancing act between recruiting, managing human resources for a company thats new and growing like crazy and has a whole lot of people coming on board. Versus a huge, global organization.Brad Absolutely. In fact, one of the interesting challenges and the reason they brought me on with my background is they were going through massive hypergrowth. They were the fastest growing stock on NASDAQ two years in a row. And during that font of growth, frankly, there are a lot of things in the HR function that had been patchworked or pieces put together that we wanted to flesh out and build out into world-class systems, processes, and opportunities. And so weve got the startups here today but even the whole machine itself feels like a startup, that were getting to build up and flesh out some of these world-class things in a very modern perspective. Thats the inter esting component.The clarification on my role. My role has a unique twist to it. I am in charge of whats kind of called traditional human resources with regards to the United States, Uruguay, and Europe. And then Ive got a global responsibility for what I call talent management. Thats recruiting, learning, development, and organizational development, things of that nature. So its a nice juxtaposition where Ive got a little bit of classic, traditional business partnering here and then global perspective for some of the more progressive things that were looking to do as well.Josh Yeah, thats really interesting. Thats a lot on your plate and I know were going to get into a lot of that stuff here so with the company right now, globally, I think I read that its 9,000+ employees? How many are you guys at?Brad I think were just slightly under 7,500 , plus a large contingent of contractors and vendors, Especially in owners.com, we have over 300 real estate werbers that are part of our broke rage exclusively. And so, you know, they dont show up on the headcount report. But, yeah, a little under 7,500 currently.Josh And how big is your team?Brad Whew, uh, right now? And, uh, I havent counted this week yet, but we are somewhere around the range of about 150-200 people all-in, with the recruiting team actually making up a significant portion of that population.Josh Interesting.Brad Yeah weve got about 90 in India, about raspberry 40 or so in the US, eh, a little bit more I think we have about 10 new openings coming up in the beginning of the year, so were probably about 150. Counting Uruguay and the Philippines are a little smaller.Josh Wow. Wow. So what is the structure of that team like? Im assuming there are some people that are in charge of sourcing, youve probably got it pretty well segmented given that you have to recruit such a large volume of people. You need these people focused on specific functions within the whole recruitment lifecycle.Brad Yeah, absolutely. So weve got kind of three recruiting populations, essentially. Theyre segmented out with not too much overlap, more of a system and process overlap than a admin or leadership overlap, all rolling up into me. So obviously youve got the US kind of, what Ill call corporate recruiting. Ill talk about that in a second because were doing some really interesting things there. Then we have whats focused on our owners.com real estate agent recruiting team. That by far is our biggest team. Its a group thats structured in a very traditional kind of high volume recruiting way. Weve got a sourcing team, and then weve got kind of these roles that we call Regional Leads, and the sourcers are literally going out and dialing real estate agents every single day, trying to convince them to have an opportunity to join the brokerage. Then sending them up to the Regional Lead who is obviously doing much more of an organizational development-style behavioral interview, assessing them and then getting them o ver to a hiring manager, the managing broker, and pushing them through that way.Were actually doing some pretty cool things in the future where were pushing a lot of the assessment components of the real estate agent experience into training and development. Josh, you know I have always been a fan of capturing information around candidates during the onboarding phase, so were doing that here which Ive done other places in my career a well. Instead of just relying on the recruiter and the hiring manager, continuing that data loop all the way through the entire process. Thats the agent recruiting, then we have the A-Pac corporate recruiting team as well, as well that handles India and the Philippines.On the US corporate team, the really cool thing that weve done, weve just launched it here in the last couple months, is. If I look at where is recruiting shortchanging themselves its typically about the assessment of the candidate. You typically have a recruiter, whose job it is to hire people. Theyll do whatever they can to get a person on board, thats the nature of a recruiter. And then youve got a hiring manager who doesnt have time, doesnt necessarily become an expert at behavioral interviewing. They trust their wohl which means theyre bringing bias to the process, etc. Its really a recipe for disaster at a lot of companies. Youve got someone whos number one bias is trying to get someone hired, and another whose bias is trying to find people that they, you know, like without any real data or validation behind it.The really fun thing that we did which is very much in the spirit of some of the work Ive done at previous companies as well but Ive never really had the time to flesh out like Ive gotten to do here. We have actually inserted organizational development in the middle of the interview process. So we have a new function called a Talent lebensabschnittsgefhrte. A Talent Partner is essentially a traditional senior recruiter. The Talent Partners job is to ext ract the requirements from the hiring manager. I look at recruiting as having four components, or four steps in its journey. Step one is where youre reactive, a requisition comes in, and you start working on the requisition. A step below that where youre really bad is retroactive. Where a rec comes in and its 90 days or more until youre even going to pay attention to that rec. A step above that is proactive. Where you start saying, Oh, hey were about to close this contract on this deal and were going to need ten of this role, let me start building a pipeline of talent. Let me start building a social community, whatever it may be. So weve got retroactive, reactive, proactive, and the top level is cliched, but I call it partnering.Where were aspirationally going in the next year, and well see how it plays out, is we actually want people to call our Talent Partners, and not open up a requisition, but come with a business problem. Say, Hey, I would like to increase efficiency on my team 10%. Whats available in this market Lets say Atlanta efficiency 10% will yield me an increased pre-tax margin of $250,000. You have $250,000, go see what the market can bear. And that might be one senior project manager to set up a PMO with two coordinators. Or three project managers, or its a data analyst and a medium project manager and a coordinator. There are different ways of slicing that business problem based on what is in real time availability in the marketplace.So a Talent Partner is supposed to understand the market, and the roles, and the requirements of the business and solving business problems, not necessarily doing the requisition.A lot of times, manager calls and Hey, I need to open up this role. And if you really ask them why, Well, thats what we had before when Bob left. Its like, okay Bobs gone so Im going to replace him with the exact same person. That may not make sense because Bobs been here for 6 years and you havent looked at the structure since then. The Talent Partner then passes the requisition and key requirements on. If you look at any of our job postings, youll notice a few unique attributes. Anyone whos ever worked with me, theres some pretty distinct signatures on most of my job descriptions for the last couple companies Ive worked at.Number one is that theres a maximum of four requirements. And thats really hard for hiring managers to get into their ecosystem. You cant tell me twenty bullets. Because with twenty bullets, two things happen 1) either you find someone who doesnt read the job description and they just spray and pray and apply anyway, or 2) and this is the worst one, they actually read all those twenty bullets and think, Well, Ive got 18 of them, but not two, Im not going to apply to this role, I clearly dont have the requirements theyre looking for. I love when companies put nice to haves. Nice to have is just code for Dont bother me if you dont have these. In fact, in a lot of their ATSs completely stream out even the Nice to haves that dont meet their requirements.A sidebar on that, I just saw a study last week that women are actually less likely to apply to a job in which they are not a 100% fit for the requirements. So we are actually getting in our own way in terms of diversity initiatives whenever youre posting 20 bullet-long job descriptions.The other interesting thing that Ive focused a lot on is youll notice there are no degree requirements on any of our jobs except the few accounting ones where a CPA is required, or a law one where a law degree is required. For 95% of our jobs, there are no education requirements, and we try our best though one occasionally slips through where we dont say years of experience required. Instead of saying 5 years of experience, well this candidate only has 4 years and 11 months, so theyre not going to cut it. Oh, well thats different Brad. Well, then is 4 years and 10 months okay? Well no, its about 5. 4 years 5 months? What about if someone work ed 4 years but put in 80 hours a week verus someone who worked 4 years and put in 40 hours per week? Are those the same candidate? Are those the same 4 or 5 years? There are so many nuances to it, we get in our own way a lot of the time.The way you kind of get back in the way of getting out of the way is this new role that I talked about with organizational development. We actually have a psychologist that weve hired that are in this new function called Talent Asesser. And the Talent Asesser really fits well into, Josh, some of the work that you guys have done around the video interview, where its and Ive said this for a number of years now show me instead of tell me that you can do the job.Typically in part of our interview process there are a couple batteries, some of them very practical, a knowledge check around a particular specialized area, some of it is more basic. If we have a compliance role, having an attention to detail assessment might be built into there along with a c ompliance and regulatory knowledge check. Doesnt mean that those become eliminators, it might mean that those become prescriptions for when someone starts how we build a talent development program for them. They were really good at this, but they had a knowledge gap around this particular area, how do we make sure we shore that up when they join the organization. Then the Talent Asesser, the hiring manager, and the Talent Partner again their final job is to understand the market, understand the conversation, work with OD team to finish up the job analysis and market data and then theyre responsible for closing out the candidate. So the Talent Partner kind of pops up at the beginning and the end of the process with the sourcer, the Talent Asesser and the hiring manager filling in the meat of the sandwich.Josh So is there a rover for you that is constantly assessing your hiring process and making it better?Brad Exactly. Using data.Josh Yep, which is the most important thing, obvious ly. So whats really interesting to me and I hope everybody replays that like ten times because I think that was a really good job at giving a nice overview of a super refined process. To recap I guess a couple of things on that. As far as building a really strong talent pipeline when you have to source candidates for an organization that is thousands and thousands of employees, growing really really fast, you have to have a good mix of inbound and outbound strategies to source candidates. So like you said youve got people that are dialing all day long, calling real estate agents, trying to get people interested on the outbound side. And then the inbound side, youre constantly looking at your job ads and job descriptions and seeing how you can make them more effective to not only attract a good quantity of candidates but also a good quality and a diverse set of candidates. Also sounds like on the screening side youre using some video interviews, youre using assessments and doing a w hole lot of touchpoints to make sure the people youre advancing are going to be a quality fit for the organization. Also, I thought that was really interesting that youre almost identifying weak points of the candidates even though youre still willing to bring them on because those are that persons opportunities to grow once theyre within the organization.Now, are you using that as like a selling point through the hiring process? Because I know, like, since Ive known you at previous companies and at your current job, youve always been a big fan of promoting growth and promoting from with in and making sure theres paths for people so they feel motivated not only during the hiring process but also once they come on board. Im curious if youre using those organizational development components you built into the hiring process as a way to attract people and get them excited about coming on board with you.Brad Yeah, you know Ill be candid thats more aspirational at this point and I think its okay for us to say that. A lot of times people are like, Oh, I cant do that because I dont have the next piece figured out. You eventually put yourself into apathy or paralysis by analysis.One of the big changes, Adcap candidly was at seventy five people, heres 9,000 people. Its a little different. With 9,000 people, I think its a little more challenging. And I mentioned the company grew so quickly that even getting job descriptions, job analysis done for all the positions. Were still working on in tandem through a lot of that. I think as that refines itself and I think its a really critical component, to not only take internal candidates but external candidates and push them through.But one of the things were also doing in parallel related to that topic is making a big push for internal lateral and diagonal movement. One of the ways were doing that is also in the same exact way, frankly, that were assessing external talent. Were benchmarking that against internal talent, and tr ying to capture additional data points in a substantive, tangible way to classify people with a particular skill set, hashtag them.So one of my objectives when I got here was that by 2019 I wanted 80% of my director plus promotions to be internal. Just to give you context, the industry benchmark, 45% is about the top 99th percentile of the curve. So its almost double what benchmark says. When I got here it was about 15%. Were up to 40% so far.So, in a less formalized way than Id like it to be weve really made a push for the internal talent pool being the first place that we look and allowing that to drive some of our recruitment processes.One of the nice things is when were looking for talent, and sourcing again you mentioned a lot of different ways that were doing that building a brand, pushing towards different ways of looking at job descriptions, those that say Come on in instead of Stay on out.It also means that for instance, Ill give you another subtle version of that. For a lot of companies, the second place candidate normally goes into a dark black hole never to be heard from again. Well, were tagging that second place candidate the same way were tagging our internal employees which allows us to then say, Hey, three months ago you were a top candidate, but we have a new role that you fit 80% of the search parameters for., and weve engaged with you through common communication or updates or just little messages, etc.So weve kept in touch with them, weve driven the internal talent pool, so were looking much more holistically than just sort of building a passive social talent pool which is even more progressive. That tends to be the most progressive companies use an internal or a social talent pool. Were actually driving internal talent assessment to be able to have a real time example and a real time opportunity to tap into our internal talent pool along with our second chance or our third chance.One of my favorite things that Ive done is when I see an interesting resume across my desk and I dont recruit as much in my current role but as I was building out my team. I joked as I was building the owners.com recruiting team I got a call from my CEO and he said, Hey Brad, we need you to build up the recruiting team to be able to hit this massive goal to take this company thats going to change real estate to build out the real estate agent pool. And I said, Great, you know thats wonderful Bill. The problem is Im a little short staffed on recruiters to hire these recruiters. And he said, Well, hire a recruiter then. And so, okay, great, I need to hire a recruiter to hire these recruiters. And he said, Well, okay, I dont know what to tell you Brad. Well, okay I guess Ill be the recruiter to hire the recruiters.So as I was building out my team and then hiring all these functions that we never really had on the US side before, I actually got to look at a lot of resumes. One of my favorite things I used to do when I saw an interesting resu me was send out a note and say, Hey, you know youre not a fit for the role that you applied for, but you have an interesting background. What do you like to do? What are you looking for in terms of general compensation? And lets see if theres something that might fit on the team.And I got some of my top, top performers on my team, in fact one of the gentlemen just got promoted, hes working directly for the owners.com division. I hired him, he came in the door, didnt know what he could actually do for us but thought he might be a fit for something. Hes hardworking, hes intelligent, passionate, humble, all the attributes you really want in somebody. Brought him on board, hit a home run out of the park luckily for me. Its being able to look at candidates, internal or external through different lenses I think thats really really critical.Josh Interesting. Yeah I know always its been a goal of yours to find the diamond in the rough candidates. I know that that goes way back. Youve always looked for those people that might not jump out on paper or not jump out on video or vice-versa. And youre able to find those people and make them rockstars within the organization. Its interesting that youve continued that at your current role.Now, one of the things that I thought was really interesting about what you said was you mentioned paralysis by analysis or by over-analysis. So people that are trying to build out a recruitment strategy, but maybe they dont have the resources or they dont have the time, or just not everything perfect. As a result, they dont end up putting things into place and they dont get the results that they want. Im curious, now youre at a company where youve got a 100+ person team, youve got all these resources, youre constantly refining processes, and on the outside listening to you Im like, Man, this process is on pointe. It is perfect, everything about it is like a well-oiled machine. But I can imagine there are things that you still want to improv e upon.My question to you is, as people are listening and they are trying to build out their process and theyre listening to all these things that youve got going on, it might seem a little overwhelming to them. I want to get this guys results but theres no way I have the time or resources to put all these process in place. So for those people is there like a specific place that you would tell them to start? Or something that you would tell them to focus on, or not get bogged down by as theyre starting to build out their process and strategy to recruit top talent.Brad Sure. Thats a great question and one that I think is important to calibrate. And anyone whos seen me speak I typically end all my presentations with this quote so apologies if youve heard this before. I love the Chinese proverb that says, The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.The reality is its never a good time, the best time is now. So you can keep waiting for the conditions to g et better they wont. So finding to me the way that Ive always began things like this is the same way I started the process here. By the way, its hardly oil-refined. Every single day Im finding something that could be a little bit better, or a tweak to the data algorithm or a sourcing strategy. Right now, the recruiting team, were running 5 different tests in Q1 with completely different strategies. We ran a test just a few weeks ago where instead of an interview, we just did a roleplay. That was the complete interview, just a roleplay with a real estate agent. So were experimenting with that. Early indicators actually show that we have actually had a 27% increase in quality of hire just on that extremely small population. But its different than the behavioral interviews which frankly were measuring the same attributes that we had defined by doing kind of an internal survey identifying what our top performers looked like. Theres lots of tweaks always going on.The key is finding a gr oup that will be receptive. Ideally, if you have a high volume role, so for instance we have a role right now where were hiring 40 people this month and next month besides the agent side. The agent side should hire hundreds if not a thousand over the next couple months. In this other role on the corporate side, again we found a hiring manager that was really open to try and look at things through a different lens. We had enough variability around the rules to be able to. I wouldnt recommend trying to do this on talent assessment project on one role unless its something really, really distinct, you have some really clear indicators, and you feel like you can get some good benchmark data. Whereas its a lot easier to do it with 40 and figure out along the way where you make some mistakes. My OD specialist that was on that particular role, they did the first version of the assessment, they did multiple choice for the knowledge check. Ive actually used knowledge checks for a number of ye ars now. I dont like multiple choice, I think it gives false negatives and false positives. So I said, Hey guys, lets pull back and not do multiple choice. They said, Brad, the first 40 candidates already took the multiple choice. If were going to use a solid benchmark across the entire population, psychology says it needs to be consistent. And thats correct, but at the same time, common sense says you need to actually do an assessment thats going to capture the right data. So in the midst of all of that we made an executive decision. Lets make sure that we do the right assessment than continuing to do things that werent as optimal.Thats I think the key is just start. And in real time you might find opportunities to make improvements. I think finding somewhere that will let you fail. And one of the things I love about OKRs and why were rolling them across the organization if you actually hit (I dont know if youre familiar with OKRs, Josh, but youre actually supposed to fail at 30% o f your OKRs.) Those are objective key results if youre not familiar with it.Google is the one that made it famous, though it goes back to Intel in the 70s, ironically. I love that spirit. It ended up backfiring on me but I used to open up my recruiting team calls by having everyone go around the room and say what their biggest failure from the previous week was. It was early in my tenure, people really didnt understand the essence of what I was trying to get across, which is, lets celebrate failures, as long as were learning from them. So I wouldnt necessarily recommend opening all your calls with failures, it got me excited and got me pumped up thinking about opportunities to improve but it didnt necessarily have that effect on the team. The spirit of it is there, which is just go And know that you might mess up. Dont do it all in the critical Vice President role for a growing business unit, or it may not fit into one of your more conservative business units but just starting thing s.And Josh, youre familiar with the apprentice program I ran at my last company. Got a lot of awards, a lot of recognition, a lot of speaking engagements around it and we started on the sales side. We did a sales apprenticeship, then the engineering team looked over and said, Hey Thats really cool, can we do something like that? So we started on the engineering side. I had one group that held out almost two years despite an exponential, massive success of the program. Finally, they surcame and said yeah, well do it too. And they did it and six months later they cant believe they had never done it before. And so its okay if you dont have consistent rollout across the entire enterprise, as long as you give opportunity for opting in and opting out to the program.I was more hesitant that I was going to be able to accomplish that hyper growth hyper scale change at a 9,000 person company, but Ive been pleasantly surprised at the receptivity of a lot of our business units trying things and always constantly looking at things they can improve and attract, entertain the best talent possible.Josh Thats interesting. Yeah you keep doing the same thing youre going to get the same result. So ultimately youve got to experiment and like you said, its better to experiment in a pilot group or pilot position or some type of smaller sample to prove it. And if you can prove it, you can start scaling it throughout the organization. I guess the takeaway there is dont be scared to get out of your comfort zone, dont be scared to test things. If you fail, fail on a smaller scale. Dont try it for every position at the same time. But if you fail use those learnings to either come up with a new experiment or shift gears or whatever it is.Brad Another thing to think about too is Im a big fan of minimum viable products. A lot of times, people think they have to build the whole thing out before they can try it. But whats the most raw version possible of actually doing that. Thats I think a m istake a lot of people make thinking it has to be a lot more mature and fleshed out. What do you need to do to actually see how people will interact with the experience? What are the things you couldnt think of in advance? Because if youre trying to think of everything, you wont and then youll find yourself wasting a lot of time going back and correcting what you thought was the right thing all along. Minimum viable product around anything you do is I think a critical neuerung driver.Josh I think a lot of people can relate to that. If youre a CEO or a Founder thats listening to this and you come from a marketing background, or a product background, youre probably familiar with MVPs and experiments so you know its definitely something you can apply to your recruiting. I think thats a really awesome takeaway. So, thats a lot of really good content for the audience. Thats a lot for them to take in, but if you could just pull away a few nuggets from there, people will be really on their way and really satisfied with some of the action items they can take away from the podcast. Before we wrap up, one of the things that I like to do is on a personal level ask people some things that our audience can take away not as much on the work side of things. So, are you reading any book right now that you would recommend to the audience?Brad Yeah, so the book Im in the middle of right now is The Start-Up Way By Eric Ries, its about how you take lean startup principles and apply them to big, slow moving machines. It talks about the government, healthcare.gov, and GE. I find it to be a really interesting way of how do you treat different pieces and then teach organizations how to move at different speeds. Next up in my queue, sitting on my desk waiting to be read, it just came out hot off the presses, so I cant comment on it but The Talent Delusion Why Data, Not Intuition, Is the Key to Unlocking Human Potential. I think that came out a month, maybe two months ago I think, yep, 2017. And then the book Ive been handing out Ive been handing out quite a few books this year the one Ive been handing out the most probably, is called Exponential Organization. Essentially its this idea of how do you create things that grow exponentially versus linearly. So obviously, Ubers a great example of that and Waze. The Wayze story, if youre not familiar with it, is essentially with very little capital the investment grew so quickly with free social content. Waze is 100% user content driven. How do you create those types of things, those types of engagement communities around products, around processes, around ideation. So Exponential Organization has been a really cool way for me to challenge people on how to think exponentially rather than linearly around their problem. And there are some really great stories in there that you can read.Josh Nice, nice. Yeah, as you were talking about your recruiting process I was thinking of the book, The Lean Startup because I feel li ke a lot of things youre doing apply to a lot of principles from that book. Its interesting that youre reading some of his other work. So, what about any productivity tools that youre using? They dont necessarily have to relate to recruiting or HR, but is there anything that really helps you be super productive throughout the day?Brad Probably just hard work. The funny thing about hard work is its a very controversial topic. And what Ive always joked there was a if you think about ten thousand hours if Im averaging an 80 hour work week, and Im 15 years or so into my career, that means Im really 30 years into my career compared to someone whos only putting in a 40 hour workweek. So probably just hard work is the most underrated piece and nothing says, you know, balance and turning off, especially since getting married a couple years ago. And shoutout to my wife Morissa who I love very much, she has to put up with me. But shutting out. So this year, we went to Hawaii and shut off. D idnt bring my computer, or phone for a week. And so ironically I actually think thats a productivity tool. You know its the absence of tools, the productivity tool.The other cool thing that Ive been using for a couple years is Pure Chat. And theres a million versions of it, so I probably gave an unintended free sponsorship opportunity for them. But Ive always loved instant chat for my recruiting pages. For all of our careers pages where someone, a candidate, can actually chat with you in real time. And most company websites and they dont say quite as badly anymore but, No phone calls, no emails please., you know, Dont call us, well call you. What I loved about instantchat was, no Talk to someone right now, in real time, lets answer your questions. Lets engage on your mobile, on your PC, on your tablet. Again, similar to the job posting, Ive always liked the idea of meet people in, lets figure out where they could or couldnt fit and then take it from there. So instant chat features h ave been a big fan of mine.Josh Nice, nice. And then just one more question. So, any favorite recruiting influencer? Like, somebody whose blog you read, podcasts you listen to, videos you watch, somebody that you think our audience should follow.Brad I wish I could tell you that but Im a fan of panor recognition. To me, I like to go as far outside of the industry as possible. So even reading The Startup Way, to me theres a million applications of The Startup Way or lean startup to what we do. So most of my, on the way in this is a non-answer again, which I have a tendency to do sometimes. My pattern every day is really easy, its every morning I read Flipboard, an app that lets you aggregate content from different sources. Its keyed into business, or finance, or marketing, you know we do A/B testing, we do a lot of the marketing principles like you alluded to. So I read that first thing when I pop out of bed in the morning. Then on the way in to work, I typically listen to a podcast, HBR is probably one of my favorites although theres a couple other ones, Inc, etc that put out good content thats not necessarily about recruiting or HR but general, more business, and then if a certain particular function business is doing something, why cant we do it in our group? Which ends up making our HR department feel more like business units in operations because at the end of the day, our job is to recruit, retain, and maximize revenue. You could add mitigate risk in there if you wanted to add a fourth R. But its actually really what we do and thats what the businesses need to do. And so really focusing on business needs because we need to create business solutions has really been a big piece. And then before I go to bed is where I typically do an old fashioned paper book and Ill read a chapter to bed. So the idea is I dream about HR or recruiting stuff at night, wake up, get my brain thinking about it right away while Im brushing my teeth rather than idle thought, and co me into work. The one twist on all that is on the way home I typically listen to Around the Horn, the ESPN show to kind of tune down work a little bit and to turn off so I can spend some time with my wife and not be thinking about work all the time.Josh Exactly, its your cool down stage.Brad Yeah, exactly.Josh Nice, awesome. Well, Brad, this has been great. I think youve really provided some awesome advice for the audience and everybody who wants to connect with you should they hit you up on Linkedin or where can they find you?Brad Absolutely. Yeah, Linkedin is the best way to reach me. You can add me. Know that it takes me a little bit of time to clean up my network. Ive been on Linkedin since pretty much the beginning of time so Ive got 30,000 1st degree connections over there. So I have to delete some to add some. Thats typically the best way. Or you can email me, my email at work is just bwilkinsaltisource.com. Again, anything I can do to help out. To me, I think the better the general recruiting, or HR or business becomes at treating people, and evaluating people and giving people opportunities, I think it helps all of us. I used to provide our playbook to all our competitors at my previous company and found that to be a way of increasing the talent pool across the entire geographic area or in this case now the world. So Im a big fan of trying to pay it forward as much as possible and I would be glad to answer any additional questions if I talked to fast or you wanted a deep dive into something. My resources are yours.Josh Awesome. Well, Brad thank you for coming on today, and I appreciate your time.The Growth Recruiting Podcast is available in iTunes